Man, I had the shittiest day yesterday. People can be so fucked up sometimes.
There are moments when you’re on the road for a client, missing your wife and your daughter so damned much, and you’re like, wtf, I’m busting my ass for this shit?
By the time I got back to Austin from Houston, I was tired and depressed (AND I had to go out again to cover an event for another client).
Luckily, I made it home in time to kiss Georgia P goodnight: one smile and one kiss from her made it all worthwhile.
And when I finally got home around 9 p.m. and could finally take off my jacket and dress shoes and wash Houston’s swamp off of my skin, all I wanted was a groovy glass of wine.
And so we opened the 2011 Roussanne Stone Crusher by Donkey & Goat: Natural, orange, oxidized, crunchy, salty, and tannic (paired with roast chicken).
I couldn’t help but think of all the people who have been hating on orange wines over the last few weeks. (Richard Betts writing for Forbes.com quoting the Hose Master? Give me a fucking break.)
Why people get so freaked out about Natural wine, about orange wine, about wine that the rest of us like to drink… I’ll never understand.
I don’t go about telling the rich people how much their wine sucks.
Yesterday, someone tried to impress me with a bottle of The Prisoner and I simply replied, “well, it’s not really my speed.”
To the haters, I say, I know, it’s only orange wine, but I like it.
If I could win ya, if I could sing ya
A love song so divine
Would it be enough for your cheating heart
If I broke down and cried? If I cried?
Do Bianchi 
Good points, Dr. P.
L’chaim, and all that.
Must have been something in the cosmos causing such disturbances- I was thinking the same thing yesterday…”wft-I’m busting my ass for what?” Hang in there my friend! We will toast to your direction.
J, I hear ya. Gotta love the missing warp and wooh of the luxury wine market. Nice rant.
hi Jeremy i understand that long-maceration whites can be oxidized or not oxidized, like any other kind of wine. but i don’t see why when we think of white with lots of skin contact we automatically think oxidized. do you think that is just a historical accident? -michael
hey, thanks, yall, for the solidarity and the kind words. Life and people are a trip, no?
L’chaim right back at you…
Michael, we should ask Jared from Donkey and Goat his thoughts. In my experience, the skin-contact model established by, say, Radikon, is always open vat and so the oxidation is unavoidable. I’ll ask Jared what he thinks.
I find both. We allow the Stonecrusher to see some oxidation but not much. It is fermented in a 4200 liter open top wood fermentation vessel and pressed slightly sweet. During fermentation, the wine is fairly protected because of the CO2 released.
I think Roussanne is very sensitive to oxygen. I think the little oxygen contact as we press it is probably where most of the typical oxidative notes occur. We use an old fashion basket press.
Our Grenache Blanc is made the same way but I don’t get any of those note. (It is blended into our SluiceBox wine.)
I think other factors to think about in addition to the grape itself – how does it behave with oxygen, punchdown or pumpover can impact oxygen and the pressing date.
I don’t think of skin contact and oxidation are inherently connect in the orange wines. Radikon and Gravner’s inherent influence in our thoughts are probably the biggest drivers.
I just read a research article tonight that said skin contact increases oxidation effects generally in wines but that it depends on both grape type, like you mention, Jared, and also on fermentation temperature. So, it’s not that a skin contact wine will be oxidized. The study also said that the fermentation temperature seemed to impact both phenolic extraction and oxidation level more than the duration of skin contact, though of course that is relevant too. Obviously I haven’t messed with this myself. I’m super interested in winemaker experience there. Jared, have you noticed anything regarding temperatures?
Jared, Thanks. That makes perfect sense to me. I suspect the answer to my questions is mostly, “yes.” In the better known European places where lots of skin contact is traditional, so is oxidative wine making. That’s what I was suggesting by the phrase “historical accident.”
I’m doing some experiments with very long maceration red wines and want to do the same with white. I think that for minimum oxidation, if that’s what one wants, an open-tank fermentation should have significant empty headspace, maybe 25%; it will fill with CO2 reducing the availability of oxygen.
You have been really helpful to me. Thanks again. -michael
Jeremy I’m forced to simply say; Something about the people that stood alone at times…… They dedicated their lives, put their passion & love & created an impact and a difference in what we (the weird, eccentric, or what ever the rest called us) come to enjoy daily…… their wines.
Some still with us others not, although we wish they were with us for ever.
The likes of,
Bartolo & Maria Teresa MASCARELLO, Giacomo CONTERNO, Josko GRAVNER, Haridimos HATZIDAKIS, Egon MÜLLER, Frank CORNELISSEN, Bruno GIACOSA, Damijan PODVERSIC, Nicolas & Virginie JOLYS, Helmut DÖNNHOFF, Anne Claude LEFLAIVE, Aimé GUIBERT, Didier DAGUENEAU, Ales CRISTANCIC, Catherine WEINBACH, Paul DRAPPER, Olivier HUMBRECHT, Randall GRAHM, Stanko RADIKON, Giampiero BEA, Alvaro PALACIOS, Gaston HOCHAR, Titta CILIA & Giusto OCCHIPINTI, Daphne GLORIAN, Rene BARBIER, Carlos PASTRANA, Foti SALVO, Arianna OCCHIPINTI, Gideon & Saron BEINSTOCK , Catherine & Pierre BRETON, Giulio GAMBELLI, Giacomo TACHIS……..
There are more, as we the rest, or possibly “others” know, but I don’t think THEY WILL EVAAAA GET IT, at least let us enjoy them, why do you get so pissed off, and show your negativeness, as if you know that we are correct.
If you just said “I don’t like them” would be enough.
Who’s that guy?
NO OAK……. NO FRUIT-BOMPS……. NO PARKER-IZATION….. and I’m refering to Mr. Robert Parker Jr.
We have no place in our wine fridge, wines that are influenced by Michel Rolland and the likes, the worlds most ubiquitous and powerful wine consultant.
The harmony of nature is better than anything we could ever create. I believe it should be a priority to seek to drink what is ‘true’ rather than what is ‘good’ Serge Hochar
sorry about your day, Jeremy, orange wine is such an obvious target: a combination of the oxidized aspect, also the price. It falls so “naturally” into the infamous anti-flavor wine elite bucket. Frustrating for sure that people can be so close-minded, but that only leaves more for us! (And we’ll leave the fruitbombs for them!).
Big thanks for alerting us to the 09 Ar.Pe.Pe.Rosso. Yum.
Yeah, I don’t get this haters hating thing on orange wines either. Who’s making these people drink them?
Orange wines, FTW.
thanks for all the thoughtful comments and support here, yall. They mean a lot to me. Thank goodness for our community of wine lovers. It’s always amazing to me to think how we share a sensibility that transcends our palates. I’m so glad that we can all connect here through blogging.
Love it.
I don’t get the hate, either. It’s not like it’s white zinfandel (which I think we can all agree to hate, at least). Orange wine may be inexpensive, but, done right, it’s delicious. More for us!
Ha, Asimov FTW, too: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/dining/reviews/slovenias-vineyards-and-a-vibrant-wine-culture-rebound.html?
Sending love as always, Jeremy. Glad to know you’re back with family again soon! Hope you’ve had a fantastic time in NYC.
thanks, everyone, for the great dialog here! And Hawk Wakawak, thanks for the wishes and thoughts. :)
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